Abe HD Ideas

[Manco]

While I agree with you on the idea of making Mudokon emotions more believable (especially since depressed and angry were practically identical), the problem is that the developers will have to be very careful with how they approach it.

Going too far with the realism can render the gameplay overly complex. Having to jump through hoops to get every single Mudokon to even listen to you would seriously suck the fun out of the game and move it toward tediousness.

So there needs to be a way of preserving the realism while avoiding tedious gameplay. Some possible solutions:

• Establish that Mudokons are reluctant to follow Abe, but have no choice. Perhaps they see Abe as their only chance of freedom, or follow him out of fear he may kill them as well. Problem: the effectiveness of this idea would be dependent on the game explaining why the Mudokons still follow, either through cutscene(s) or in-game dialogue. I can see that being very inefficient if not handled well.
• Build a level progression which branches depending on Quarma, with differing puzzles dependent on Mudokon emotions in the area. Problem: while this would create some great replay value for players, the developers would have to come up with a fuckton of new or reworked puzzles, and possibly even environments. This could be reduced by only altering a handful of the late game levels, but still.

I think that unless a really elegant solution can be found, the best option may be to avoid playing with Mudokon emotions too much, and accepting that there will be some segregation of gameplay and realism. The player’s choices could still be reflected through changes to environmental moods.

[Sekto Springs]

I think a simple change in dialogue could do wonders in conveying what the Mudokon's feel towards Abe throughout the game. Much like how Abe's greeting in AE would change depending on your Quarma.

Near the beginning, when Abe asks a fellow to follow him, he could reply with a hesitant "Uh... okay."

Once you've rescued enough guys, the hesitant response could simply become "okay". If you've worked towards getting good Quarma, and live up to your name as a savior, they would start to respond more enthusiastically. "Okay!", or perhaps even some of the peppier soundbites from MO like "Hey, it's Abe!".

If your Quarma is static or poor, the Mudokons would retain their hesitancy throughout. Perhaps in the end you come across a few that are just downright pissed or depressed as well.

[MeechMunchie]

Until eventually they're caught between terminal slavery and a murderous traitor.

"... Whatever." *Follows* "I got nothin' left to lose."

[Sekto Springs]

Pretty much.
The Mudokons will still always follow you (unless you do incorporate the emotional ones you have to pat on the back first), but the nature of their response can go a long way.

I don't remember who said it first, but I like the idea of the graffiti being dependent on Quarma. If you have phenomenally poor Quarma, I would love to see "MURDERER" crudely painted over one of your wanted posters in the background.

[STM]

I think the quarma thing should remain more subtle than the open mudokon emotion. I never found I lost any immersion by having to pat a mudokon on the back after it had just witnessed the slaughter of its brethren because it's just a mechanic.

Besides, when Abe say hey, doesn't the inflection in his voice alter already depending on his quarma? Certainly in AE...well, I think...

[Sekto Springs]

Besides, when Abe say hey, doesn't the inflection in his voice alter already depending on his quarma? Certainly in AE...well, I think...

Much like how Abe's greeting in AE would change depending on your Quarma.

Abe's voice does change depending on your Quarma. But I was suggesting that the attitude of the other Mudokons should change as well.

[Nepsotic]

Thats a good idea, maybe sometimes you even get a mudokon you have to persuade to follow you, or maybe he never will until he sees you rescue one of his buddies.

[Crashpunk]

That really is a good idea. If you are known to have saved a lot of Mudokons, the rest of them could be really happy to see you and visa-versa.

Or how about if you smack a angry Mudokon they come after you and try to kill you?

And I've thought it would be funny to have the sad mudokons try to kill themselves in different ways (I admit, that sounds a bit strange ) such as walking into a mine or off a cliff. Y'know more slapstick. It would be a bit of a change to the guy whacking himself to death.

[Nepsotic]

I think it would be funny if angry mudokons had little tantrums now and then, maybe mumbling something under their breath

[Dipstikk]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but I always thought it was kind of -odd- that you began rescuing Mudokons in the first level. Who told Abe he could chant to open portals? That seems like something he'd have picked up in his travels through Monsaic Lines. I always felt like the escape from Rupturefarms should have been dedicated to learning the controls and that returning to Rupturefarms to rescue Mudokons should have been the reason Abe was brought to Monsaic Lines in the first place.

[Michael]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but I always thought it was kind of -odd- that you began rescuing Mudokons in the first level. Who told Abe he could chant to open portals? That seems like something he'd have picked up in his travels through Monsaic Lines. I always felt like the escape from Rupturefarms should have been dedicated to learning the controls and that returning to Rupturefarms to rescue Mudokons should have been the reason Abe was brought to Monsaic Lines in the first place.

That's what the story was originally going to be. Abe was also meant to have the stitches in his lips cut when he reached Monsaic Lines, enabling him to speak for the first time.

If I remember correctly, OWI decided to allow players full control of Abe (chanting and speech) from the onset so that the gameplay would be rich from the beginning of the game. For the planned AO movie, they wanted to use the original story

[Manco]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but I always thought it was kind of -odd- that you began rescuing Mudokons in the first level. Who told Abe he could chant to open portals? That seems like something he'd have picked up in his travels through Monsaic Lines. I always felt like the escape from Rupturefarms should have been dedicated to learning the controls and that returning to Rupturefarms to rescue Mudokons should have been the reason Abe was brought to Monsaic Lines in the first place.

I like having Mudokons there from the start. It adds a little more depth and realism to the world—would be rather strange having one single area of RuptureFarms begin completely devoid of Mudokons—and it creates a little replay value for players who missed them first time and want to go back for a perfect run.

I also think that the controls for Abe are fairly simple to pick up, but the GameSpeak needs a fair bit of introduction at the beginning. So having Mudokons around helps players in that regard.

[STM]

I think saving mudokons from the beginning should be left as if, if my inkling is correct and Oddworld has a reason why.

[Wil]

If I remember correctly, OWI decided to allow players full control of Abe (chanting and speech) from the onset so that the gameplay would be rich from the beginning of the game. For the planned AO movie, they wanted to use the original story

Indeed, except for that last part. It's hard to have a silent protagonist in a film, especially someone who needs to be as identifiable as Abe.

[Nepsotic]

That really is a good idea. If you are known to have saved a lot of Mudokons, the rest of them could be really happy to see you and visa-versa.

Or how about if you smack a angry Mudokon they come after you and try to kill you?

Ha, i don't think theye'd be THAT angry, the killing in different ways is a good idea, but would be annoying, i remember a part in AE where a bunch of mudokons start smacking themselves, and you have to get to them and tell them to stop before any die. Now that would be an arseache if when you got there theye' already blown themselves up long ago.

The finding/not finding mudokons in eairly stages debate is an interesting one. It would be interesting and would make sense to not find and be able to save them for story purposes, but would be a little boring and unchallenging for gameplay purposes, plus you'd have to figure out gamespeak later on, and by that time the games chucking all sorts at you, it would be annoying fiddling with controls while animal carcasses are being flung at you. On the other hand, maybe you could see mudokons early on like usual; but cannot save them until you return and discover your abilities? Just a thought.

[Manco]

You’d also need to change the pacing of the later levels, as you’d need to accommodate moving the 28+ Mudokons to other areas. That would require either adding a bunch more secret areas in the native lands, or adding the equivalent of another Zulag to the Rupturefarms return.

[Michael]

Indeed, except for that last part. It's hard to have a silent protagonist in a film, especially someone who needs to be as identifiable as Abe.

Haha I should have noticed that mistake! Fair point

[Nate]

I like having Mudokons there from the start. It adds a little more depth and realism to the world—would be rather strange having one single area of RuptureFarms begin completely devoid of Mudokons

I think that the plan would have been to have the Muds there in Rupturefarm, but not save them. They'd be the same muds that you save in the return to Rupturefarm.

I actually think it would be a good idea to reinstitute this idea. There's plenty of the game which is just platforming and puzzling, so changing the first level to be like that wouldn't water down the game significantly. Also, it always felt wierd to me that Abe would save his buddies from the beginning, but not save all of them before escaping.

[Dipstikk]

I think that the plan would have been to have the Muds there in Rupturefarm, but not save them. They'd be the same muds that you save in the return to Rupturefarm.

I actually think it would be a good idea to reinstitute this idea. There's plenty of the game which is just platforming and puzzling, so changing the first level to be like that wouldn't water down the game significantly. Also, it always felt wierd to me that Abe would save his buddies from the beginning, but not save all of them before escaping.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[skychase2rebirth]

Because he was a coward in the beginning, you don't have to save any of them to escape... Then he gets Shrykull powers and is more confident, goes back through Rupture Farms increased security and shut down the place.

[Wil]

I actually think it would be a good idea to reinstitute this idea. There's plenty of the game which is just platforming and puzzling, so changing the first level to be like that wouldn't water down the game significantly. Also, it always felt wierd to me that Abe would save his buddies from the beginning, but not save all of them before escaping.

The only trouble with that is that you then couldn't have secret areas in the Stockyards, Paramonia or Scrabania, and that means 50% extra new areas in the second half of the game to re-accommodate all those Mudokons.

[DarkHoodness]

Maybe it would be easier to somehow give Abe a reason to save the mudokons from the beginning of the game, rather than just himself.

[Manco]

It already sort of does make sense from the start. Abe knows he and his fellow workers are going to be toast (well, Pops), so he has a motive to rescue the dudes he passes on his way out.

Why he wouldn’t go and rescue everybody from the outset can also be inferred – for a start, Zulag 2 is locked down, and on top of that Abe doesn’t yet know his destiny as savior. I doubt he would have the confidence in himself to risk it initially, but after learning his destiny and completing the Trials, he’d feel a lot more empowered.

[Nepsotic]

One of the things i've been pondering over is the soundtrack. The OST from the originals is amazing and i would like a kind of remix ( remember this? ), and definately some music for the boardroom.

[Jordan]

http://www.oddworld.com/2012/02/jaw-...dworld-titles/

Looks like we have an engine for Abe's Oddysee HD!

[Wil]

This is the first official confirmation that Abe HD will be Abe's Oddysee.

[DarkHoodness]

Awesome - I'm glad you guys managed to find an engine to suit your needs. Judging by the tech demos done with the engine (although I'm not sure how or if they relate to game development) it seems to be a good one too.

[Glitch]

which tech demos have you seen? Also, now you all know why I had/am having to learn Lua

[STM]

Very sexy.

[Varrok]

which tech demos have you seen? Also, now you all know why I had/am having to learn Lua

Is there any other tech demo than Stone Giant? Doesn't look bad tbh